Khodorkovsky & Lebedev Communications Center

Mikhail Khodorkovsky is interviewed by Neue Zurcher Zeitung's Klaus-Helge Donath on the charges he is facing, the current trial and Russia's leadership. A translation of the article originally in German:

NZZ am Sonntag: You applied to call Prime Minister Putin to the witness stand in the ongoing court case. The application was turned down. But what would you have wanted to ask him?

Mikhail Khodorkovsky: Vladimir Putin could shed light on the trial against me. I am accused of having misappropriated 350 million tons of oil. Putin must know more, as after all this amount accounts for 20 per cent of Russian oil extraction. He could also say something about the accusation that Yukos was run like a secret society. After all, Putin discussed corporate management matters personally with me. Not least, he could clarify that the proceeds and profits from the oil sales did not disappear, as alleged by the public prosecutor.

NZZ am Sonntag: There is a pending case by Yukos against Russia at the Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. What is this about?

Mikhail Khodorkovsky: I am not involved in that trial. I just follow it. In Strasbourg, the representatives of the state allege that Yukos received all of the benefits from the sale of the oil and must pay tax on it. But this contradicts the current accusation that I stole the oil. I hope that the authorities will understand what sort of unpleasant position they have been brought to by corrupt bureaucrats.

NZZ am Sonntag: Under Putin, Russia wanted to become an energy superpower. Did it become one?

Mikhail Khodorkovsky: The Russian share of the worldwide production of energy sources is less than 10 per cent. They finance 50 per cent of the Russian state budget. I don't think that Putin regards this as a great success.

NZZ am Sonntag: Your first prison term will end in September 2011. What needs to happen so that you can really leave prison?

Mikhail Khodorkovsky: What would need to happen so that a court declares that the accusation against me is not tenable? A miracle would need to occur. The independence of the Russian judicial system, as promised by President Medvedev, would need to be created.

NZZ am Sonntag: Do you believe that the authorities have an interest in reforming the judicial system?

Mikhail Khodorkovsky: Medvedev is trying to do so. Putin also seems to have recognised the need for reform. The interests involved have to be balanced out before every reform. So far, private individuals taking personal advantage has been passed off as a state interest. I don't see any willingness yet to change anything about this plague.

NZZ am Sonntag: If you were offered freedom, but had to go into exile for it, what would you do?

Mikhail Khodorkovsky: I already faced this decision once before in 2003. Back then, I refused. It is an ordeal to be in prison. It is a matter of taking my family's interests into account and of protecting my name. I hope that I will be spared from having to make such a decision again.

NZZ am Sonntag: In a TV appearance in December, Vladimir Putin insinuated that you were responsible for murders. What do you think when you hear that?

Mikhail Khodorkovsky: In Russia's history, opponents have always been discredited in this way. This wasn't the first time that Putin did this to me. You get used to it - at least almost. In countries without rule of law, this is a common practice.

NZZ am Sonntag: Has anything changed for the better during the two years of Medvedev's presidency?

Mikhail Khodorkovsky: I personally feel closer to the values and methods that Medvedev represents than those of Putin and I understand them better. Certain changes can also be seen, but so far they only have a symbolic meaning.

NZZ am Sonntag: How do you think the Medvedev-Putin tandem is working?

Mikhail Khodorkovsky: Medvedev's independence is limited by total loyalty to Putin. He can only act within these parameters. But perhaps limits can be shifted too.

NZZ am Sonntag: If you were in the Kremlin, how would you begin a modernisation?

Mikhail Khodorkovsky: Modernisation must encompass the whole country. It can't just come from the Kremlin. The first and most important step would be the creation of independent jurisdiction. Change requires like-minded people who are interested in the success. I hope that Medvedev achieves this and that he has enough time left to do so.

NZZ am Sonntag: Many of the elite don't want reforms?

Mikhail Khodorkovsky: A significant part of the elite would like to talk modernisation into the ground and to leave everything as it is, at least for a while. The normal citizens see this as a problem and this is why they react sceptically to talk of modernisation.

NZZ am Sonntag: Your former employee Dmitri Gololobov is taking you severely to task. He says that you are like a general who lost a battle and shouldn't be pitied. According to him, you sacrificed your own people because of your political ambitions.

Mikhail Khodorkovsky: I am sorry for everyone who was harmed by the liquidation of Yukos. I wished that I could do something for them. Everyone can decide for himself how guilty he thinks I am. I don't deny any responsibility and am willing to be answerable to God and mankind. Someone else might have negotiated more cleverly. I can only defend our good name to the court.

NZZ am Sonntag: Assuming that you were released in 2011, would you participate in the 2012 presidential elections?

Mikhail Khodorkovsky: No, I don't intend to do so.

NZZ am Sonntag: Some Russian observers are saying that the political system will not survive the next two years and that the state apparatus is rotting from within.

Mikhail Khodorkovsky: I don't see any reasons why the political and societal stagnation in Russia shouldn't last for two more years.

NZZ am Sonntag: You have described the Russian justice system as a line of business that uses law and legislation to achieve its own interests. Does this also apply to other areas of the state?

Mikhail Khodorkovsky: Any apparatus that is not subject to control by society will not act in the interests of the citizens. However, the complete uncontrollability of the security structures is much more dangerous still. It resembles a military occupation.